Interview

Change

Faith

S&U interviews

22 June 2023

6 min read

"Nobody is neutral": Kate Forbes on her Christian faith and political future

Politician Kate Forbes knows how it feels when public life misunderstands a faith-led life. Robert Wright interviews her as she reflects on that experience and what next.

Robert Wright

Robert is a journalist at the Financial Times.

A women stands beside in a corridor beside a large window through which a wing of a building and a distant hillside can be see,

Kate Forbes at Holyrood, the Scottish Parliament.

When Scotland’s then first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, unexpectedly announced her resignation in February, Kate Forbes was on maternity leave from her job as Scotland’s finance secretary. As such, Forbes, a committed Christian, had not made any public statements about politics in six months.

Yet, reflecting on the campaign earlier this month, Forbes recalled how social and mainstream media were immediately “awash” with comments about why her religious convictions made her unfit to succeed Sturgeon. The controversy, much of it centred on Forbes’ membership of the small, theologically conservative Free Church of Scotland, continued throughout the subsequent election campaign. Most involved her stance on gay marriage and Scotland’s gender recognition legislation.

Forbes discussed the campaign in an interview in her small office in the Scottish parliament building in Edinburgh – one of her first since the often fractious campaign. Forbes secured an unexpectedly strong 47.9 per cent of the vote after the elimination of the third-placed candidate, Ash Regan, and the redistribution of her second-preference votes. She now sits as a backbench Member of the Scottish Parliament (MSP) for Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch. Forbes rejected an offer from Humza Yousaf, the victor, the clear choice of the party establishment, of a cabinet job far more junior than her previous role.

She started the discussion by challenging the idea – which she thought motivated some criticisms she faced - that atheists, agnostics and other non-believers were neutrals on questions of religious conviction. It was one of many points where Forbes used her experience to paint a picture of a public life where issues of faith and faithful people were increasingly marginalised and misunderstood.

“Nobody is neutral. There’s this perception, which is flawed, that there are some people who are neutral and some people who have faith.”

Everyone viewed the world through a philosophical framework, Forbes went on. It was critical to ensure people were not shut out of public debate on the basis of their philosophies, she said – just as it was important to avoid excluding people for their race, sex, sexual orientation or any of the other characteristics protected in law.

Her comments explain the unusually frank approach that she took to matters of faith when asked during the campaign about her convictions – which she insists represent a “mainstream” Christian perspective on issues of personal morality.

“I think that people of faith are under immense pressure to compromise or to change their views in the public spotlight. I think we have to logically and rationally walk through how we can both believe in a personal faith which calls us to be public witnesses to that faith and at the same time serve those with other faiths or no faith.”

Forbes, now 33 and first elected in 2016, has said that she would have voted against gay marriage if she had been a Member of the Scottish Parliament (MSP) in 2014 when the Scottish parliament voted to introduce the measure. However, she has insisted that, with the provision now on the statute books, she will defend it.

“By and large, I absolutely believe in… freedom of choice, freedom of belief and of expression. I don’t believe my views should be imposed on other people.”

Forbes nevertheless argued that there were issues of conscience where politicians should be allowed to make choices free from the normal party-political considerations. Forbes was on maternity leave in December when the gender recognition legislation came before parliament. The SNP denied its MSPs a free vote on the measure – a decision with which Forbes disagreed. The vote split all the main parties in the parliament.

Little of the commentary during the leadership election captured the nuances of her positions.

“The vote on marriage in 2014 was deemed to be a vote of conscience. My party has always held that issues around abortion should be votes of conscience. So, I think it’s possible to both believe that you legislate on behalf of everyone and treat everyone equally and make space for some votes of conscience, which are a consequence of strongly held views and convictions.”

Forbes added that “without a shadow of a doubt” MSPs should be given a free vote on one forthcoming piece of legislation - the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill. The bill, likely to come before parliament in the next few months, would allow terminally ill people over the age of 16 to ask for help in dying.

“Matters of life and death are hugely important, hugely personal but have big public implications. You might think that’s a tension. But I have always been able to accommodate that tension.”

There had never been any suggestion that Forbes’ faith led her to exclude any group from receiving funds when she was finance secretary, she added.

“Of course, it did inform my care and concern for those in poverty, for those who are under-represented in society, for those who need more help than others,” she said.

As her office filled with the noise of children enjoying their lunch break at the neighbouring Royal Mile Primary School, Forbes mostly sounded relaxed when talking about the leadership campaign. But she insisted she had felt subject to disproportionate scrutiny, particularly pointing to a leadership debate staged by Channel 4 which included a segment on “faith in politics”.

“If you watch that clip, it’s basically the interrogation of Kate Forbes. There are very few questions put to the other candidates.”

The imbalance, she said, rested on the false assumption that Yousaf, a practising Muslim, and Regan, who has no religion, took essentially neutral positions on faith questions. She said, however, that she had won support from many people of faith because of her willingness to speak openly.

“I can remember one imam saying to me, ‘It’s given us hope to see you being true and authentic to your faith even when it’s difficult’,” Forbes recalled.

Forbes, who grew up partly in India where her parents were missionaries, recalled how living through the Gujarat earthquake of 2001, when she was 10, helped to bring her to her own faith. The earthquake is estimated to have killed between around 14,000 and 20,000 people.

“It was coming face to face with the realities of life and the realities of death that I started my own faith journey,”

Forbes became noticeably more animated when talking about the nature of her personal faith than at other times, when she sounded far more guarded.

Her faith was not “a hobby like knitting or playing the guitar”, she added.

“It’s a truth that compels me to be loving and caring and be willing to sacrifice my own life.”

For the moment, however, the questions facing Forbes are more humdrum. Forbes gave her interview before Yousaf warned MSPs to back Sturgeon, the former first minister, following her arrest in June on suspicion of fraud in an inquiry over the SNP’s finances. Sturgeon, who was released without charge, has vigorously denied any wrongdoing.

Peter Murrell, Sturgeon’s husband, the former SNP chief executive, the first person arrested, and Colin Beattie, the party’s former treasurer, have also been released without charge. Both also deny any wrongdoing.

Forbes accepted the arrests had been a “huge shock”.

“I said after the second arrest… that integrity should characterise everything we do – and not just the substance of integrity but the perception.”

She also accepted there were limits to the areas where faith could guide her thinking.

She declined to say whether Jesus would prefer Scotland to be independent or remain part of the union.

“There’s no 11th commandment that decrees whether or not Scotland should in the union. I think what [God] cares about really is the values by which we live. So, you’re going to get no answer from me on that.”

She sounded still less certain, meanwhile, about where her future career path would lead.

She would continue as an MSP “for the foreseeable future”, she said.

But she went on: “The honest answer is that I don’t know what to do next.”

She had previously said it was “highly, highly unlikely” she would ever stand to be leader again, she added.

“I still hold to that position,” she said, adding that she had family and constituency commitments.

She added, nevertheless, that a sense of sacrificial calling was “ingrained” in her by her parents’ decision to leave Scotland in their 20s to serve a marginalised, impoverished community in India.

“I wait to see, really, what I can and should do next.”

Article

Ageing

Care

Change

Death & life

20 September 2024

6 min read

A Tolkien poem helps a nurse understand the ravages of dementia

'Not all who wander are lost.'

Helen Cowan

Helen is a registered nurse and freelance writer, writing for audiences ranging from the general public to practitioners and scientists.

An elderly woman wearing headphone looks up and to the side with a big smile.

Playlist for Life

Not all who wander are lost.

Often written on a care home wall, on an inspirational poster, these words are usually set against a forest background, or compass, for added effect. They have also been used as the title of a conference paper discussing so-called smart trackers for people with dementia, whilst, Not all who wander need be lost is the title of a concise guide to navigating the heartbreaking challenges when a loved one is diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease or other dementia.

As a care home nurse for more than ten years, I have seen residents wander - not lost but “walking with purpose”, as it is sometimes known in the caring community. “Nobody gets up and walks without a reason,” says Suzanne Mumford, Care UK's Head of Nursing, Care and Dementia; perhaps they are easing pain, or boredom, or looking for something that they can’t describe. I remember residents exploring, enquiring into self-made mysteries solvable only by themselves, examining everything from door handles to another resident’s buttons, even escaping with surprising speed. Walking with them, often in silence, can bring a sense of relief, comfort and companionship.

What I didn’t know was that this is a quotation from a poem by JRR Tolkien, published in The Fellowship of the Ring seventy years ago. The actual line is - “Not all those who wander are lost”.

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.”

We first hear this poem in Chapter Ten of Book One, as Frodo reads it in the postscript of a letter from Gandalf. As I read it, the imagery of being lost, withered, frost-bitten, in darkness, burned and broken, speaks something, in poetic picture language, of the ravages of dementia, the harrowing losses, the valley of tears. It brings to mind residents unaware of familiar objects or surroundings, looking straight through loved ones without a flicker of recognition, losing also language, continence, mobility and the ability to swallow.

The TV presenter Fiona Philips recalled an agonising decline in her mother as she succumbed to Alzheimer’s, describing how, in the final stages, her mother “spent whole chunks of time just sitting and staring ahead, only able to give out a series of sounds”. Fiona herself now lives with dementia. “'It’s devastated my family and it’s the biggest health and social care challenge we face as a country,” she says.

I once interviewed retired doctor Jennifer Bute, who lives with dementia. She talked of time travel (perceiving herself as living in a time from her past); disorientation to place and person; frightening hallucinations when old memories are seemingly ‘unlocked’; and ‘emotional unzipping’ when agitation and anxiety increase, often in the late afternoon or evening in something poorly understood as a symptom, known as ‘sundowning’.

Yet there is something more to this poem – each of the pains has a promise – not all who wander are lost; the old that is strong does not wither; and, most poignantly, deep roots are not touched by the frost. In dementia, it is true that deep roots are untouched, that an enduring aspect of a person’s identity never truly withers, though it may be mostly unseen. Something remains. Oliver Sacks the famous neurologist emphasised that, even in the late stages of Alzheimer’s, the person is still ‘alive inside’ (the inspiring documentary with this title is recommended). In stunning real-life stories, he has shown how music appears to ‘call back the self’, awakening moods, memories and thoughts that had seemingly been lost. He refers to music’s extraordinary ‘neural robustness’ and describes one man, unable to tie his tie or find his way to the stage, yet able to perform a perfect piano solo. In one life-affirming, must-watch, tear-jerking video, gospel music was shown to enliven, calm, focus and engage a man simply known as Henry.

Watch Henry

Singing can “provide islands of arousal and awareness like nothing else can”, according to Alicia Clair, Professor of Music Therapy. I’ve seen singing bring the person into the present for a passing moment, illuminating a face that seemed far away. One otherwise-silent lady completed the chorus of ‘Daisy, Daisy’ before descending into dementia again. Others have laughed, clapped, danced, embraced and even shed a silent tear during music therapy sessions, when music elicits memory. Doll therapy meanwhile has sometimes restored and revealed a sense of nurture, purpose, care and pride, with residents feeding their new friend before accepting their own food, folding its clothes and taking care of it cradled in their arms. Though it divides opinion, a doll can preserve dignity if it de-escalates agitation or engagement in physical or verbal abuse; a sense of dignity also comes from the person being able momentarily to give care rather than receive it.

“From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken,” continues Tolkien's poem, and, though not the original intention, these powerful images of renewal and restoration paint a picture of something known as “paradoxical lucidity”, or unexpected cognitive lucidity and communication in some patients with severe dementia, especially around the time of death (though sometimes long before).

Anecdotes are recorded of “unexpected, spontaneous, meaningful, and relevant communication or connectedness in a patient who is assumed to have permanently lost the capacity for coherent verbal or behavioral interaction due to a progressive and pathophysiologic dementing process”. Some scientists are seeing them as a paradigm shift in the understanding and perhaps even treatment of dementia. I will never forget when a woman in the late stages of dementia, with little spoken language, was brought back to the nursing home weeks after hospital admission; she had been perilously ill. With bright eyes, she took my arm and, as if the mist had cleared for a moment, spoke warmest words of thanks to me for helping her on the day she collapsed. In another fleeting and irreproducible moment, a lady wished me happy birthday, before continuing her silent walk around the home. Witnessing such an event is ethically and emotionally transformative.

The concept of remaining ‘alive inside’ even when abilities, language and memory are eroded by dementia is taken to the next level in Christianity, which teaches that life continues even after death itself. The Bible speaks of new life beyond the grave; the fire shall be woken, a light shall spring. And there will be a crown (and the gold will glitter). The Crown of Life is referred to, being bestowed upon "those who persevere under trials." Dementia is one of life’s severest trials; a cross to bear. In the 1912 hymn “The Old Rugged Cross”, another cross is spoken of, being the cross of Christ at his crucifixion. Clinging to that cross, living out a Christian life, the hymnwriter wrote of “exchanging the cross for a crown” at life’s end. After ashes, hope awaits the Christian.

Playlist for Life is a charity encouraging people to create playlists for people living with dementia.

Playlist for Life